Paul,
Please do not take offense, but you are several years behind the times. I think you are not talking about TDMA DMR, which is what the amateur radio community understands to be DMR. DMR has been in use in the USA by amateur radio operators for 5 to 7 years and is rapidly growing. It is also very active in other parts of the world. I have four transceivers and use them routinely. Amateur radio operators in the state of CT have built an extensive system for use by the amateur community and ARES use in emergencies. Motorola is a good source of DMR gear as is Connect Systems and there are an increasing number of transceivers of Chinese origin. I know that will raise hackles of some. But what radios, including Motorola are not of Chinese origin.
As to the benefits of DMR, the range is about 30% greater than analog. I can use a repeater that is 45 miles away with a rubber duckie inside the house and carry on a QSO as long as I donât move too far out of the sweet spot. Sitting in my recliner in my living room, my first contact was with S. Africa. I fully understand that was only possible through the internet connection. It is not a substitute for HF. But for operators that canât put up an HF antenna or have some kind of antenna restriction, it offers the opportunity to talk around the world. One advantage is that your signal to a repeater can be as low as -125 to -127 dBm and still have communication. Try that with analog FM!
DMR is not going away anytime soon. I believe there will be considerable growth of DMR. I donât know if this is still true, but TYTERA MD380 (DMR HT) used to be about $125 including software and programming cable. It will also be interesting to see what comes out for Dayton.
I also encourage folks to experiment with DMR simplex because of the advantages of digital operation.
To stay on topic, perhaps Kenwood may have an HT that is DMR capable, who knows. To have an HT that is capable of DMR on 2 M and 70 cm would be terrific! Any monobanders currently available are also standard analog capable, so I would expect the same in a KW offering.
George
N1YAE
From: TH-***@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TH-***@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, April 8, 2016 7:33 PM
To: TH-***@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [TH-F6A] f6 being discontinued, y/n?
To Greg N1YAE,
I'm not a novelist. So I did not mention Digital Radio Mondial. This is because this tech is not an amateur tech. While anyone can receive it, nobody but government approved types can transmit in it. It is essentially a commercial style service, managed in much the same way... Without of course much money moving to the broadcasters yet <grin>.
And because government proposes, it also disposes ... Of the 10-khz bandwidth of Amateur Shortwave. DMR uses a lot more bandwidth, for its product than any amateur radio.
Plus, there are very few DMR receivers available on the open consumer market. Most people that receive DMR would rather use it as a codec on their computers (as if that was a great idea). It's not, and speaks not one word about decent reception, via a proper receiver for that codec. For one thing, the 12-khz IF required is only available on a handful of receivers, and adding it is sometimes daunting.
DMR is another wannabee, that eventually will give way to a much better commercial standard, and fixed and predictable frequencies a'la WWV, as an example. After all, the developers for DMR were offering the codec for free, only as an experiment originally anyway. Almost nobody is using it as a percentage of the radio public, although I agree many Europeans are playing with it. And they lament the shortage of programming worth having.
I hope that gives you my thoughts on DMR. Have fun and good luck!
-Paul Pollock
KD7BWB
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 8, 2016, at 3:54 PM, 'George Andrews' ***@ntplx.net <mailto:***@ntplx.net> [TH-F6A] <TH-***@yahoogroups.com <mailto:TH-***@yahoogroups.com> > wrote:
There is no mention made here of DMR which has quite a following here and in Europe.
George
N1YAE
From: TH-***@yahoogroups.com <mailto:TH-***@yahoogroups.com> [mailto:TH-***@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, April 8, 2016 4:32 PM
To: TH-***@yahoogroups.com <mailto:TH-***@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [TH-F6A] f6 being discontinued, y/n?
To Kurt KC9LDH,
I agree. The take is different, but the conclusions are the same.
The point that Kenwood has reached, is very interesting. The TH-F6a is not unique because it's an FM tri-bander. It's unique because it's the only ham-grade handheld that combines a triband transceiver with an all-band/all-mode receiver that hears from 100-khz to 1300-mhz. Plain and simple. This means it hears in AM, FM, USB/LSB, and CW (each with its own mode lite on the display!)!
And the included receiver talks to the transceiver, so that any frequency dialed in the receiver, that would otherwise transmit in the transceiver, will transmit. The flexibility this creates is stunning.
While the antenna input is a tuned input, requiring a tuned antenna to work in a desired band, I've used my TH-F6a as a shortwave receiver with everything from a tunable rod, to a 135-ft off-center-fed dipole. The thing works quite well, and the signal recovery is excellent. Unlike Chinese junk receivers that are a AM receiver with a BFO, the TH-F6a has a real honest-to-gosh Product Detector in its receiver. Its only shortcoming is that it uses the 15-khz IF filter for FM, as well as everything else. The radios' small size is a problem.
The upshot of all that is, for those that want a small portable radio that tribands and also hears a magnificently large array of frequencies, and can step at 33-hz; Kenwood has created the last stop in handhelds. There will never be another great handheld like this again in the HAM radio community, and because of that Kenwood has shot themselves in the foot, by producing a end-all product that has no extra growth room.
-------------------------
New associated topic. Digital data and voice modes.
1). IRLP and APRS.
While many like this stuff, and pay the price for handhelds and larger frame radios to work with these modes; for me the whole thing is a yawn'r. And that's the opinion of the majority of HAMs. Most of us are not niche market users. We just want to talk to our friends, and occasionally we might want to listen to shortwave SSB/AM-Broadcast. Guess which handheld fits most of that segment of HAM users? <grin>
2). Digital voice.
DSTAR
For anyone who has taken the time to look onto YouTube and watched movies of people using DSTAR on VHF and then more recently on Shortwave, conclusions are easy. While voice quality of DSTAR on VHF+ is quite good, the range is 20-40% less than analog radio, depending on the band.
For those who have made the mistake of purchasing DSTAR for shortwave use, it is absolutely clear that the audio readability of DSTAR in shortwave is nothing less than unreadable. This is because the design bandwidth of DTAR is more than 12-khz, and the legal maximum in shortwave is 10-khz. Reducing the bandwidth killed audio fidelity. No longer a consideration as a viable option.
The other problem is that recently, DSTAR became non-viable in Europe because they've outlawed it specifically because of it's 12+=khz bandwidth, in an environment that is moving quickly to narrow-band (2.5-khz deviation). No longer a market there, Icom has to be spitting bullets about that.
When you add the factor that DSTAR, in general; has lost a lot of its steam in the marketplace, even in the U.S.; DSTAR is fast becoming another failed standard.
One in which I held out much hope as I believe Digital Voice Shortwave will become more useful than Digital VHF+ someday; I regret to point out that DSTAR will be an 'ash-heep' tech someday. I realize that fans of DSTAR attack posts like mine, often violently, the Truth is the Truth.
C4FM
This is a new standard, produced by Yaesu. It stands as their digital audio codec for commercial radio products for about 10-years. So far, it is slightly more flexible than DSTAR. Whether it becomes as developed a standard as Icom's DSTAR, is yet to be seen. Moreover, because it also requires 12.5-khz to operate, it's a non-starter in Europe, the U.S. and Japan stands as its only/ large markets.
KENWOOD DIGITAL AUDIO CODEC
This codec is only used in their commercial radio products. It is the best codec available, for voice audio. It only requires 6.25-khz bandwidth, and it actually improves on range, versus analog radio methods. We cannot force Kenwood to use it for Amateur Radio equipment, they're making way more money with it inside commercial equipment. The least costly handheld, with this codec is over $800. This is a bit richer than most Amateurs want to pay. But businesses can pay these prices, for the best radio codec, for any/band or service.
--------------------------
For the forseeable future, digital audio voice on shortwave is a dream I live for, but it remains a dream. So analog, for me is the best of all modes for shortwave, and the problems that entails, will remain. But for those of us, not really interested in digital data transceive, or position reporting; the Kenwood TH-F6a fits a niche it started, and still stands as only a king of its niche can. The King lives, Long Live the King.
-Paul Pollock
KD7BWB
P.S.> Please note, I play no favorites. I own Yaesu, Icom, and Kenwood products. And use them all.
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 8, 2016, at 11:23 AM, Kurt ***@sbcglobal.net <mailto:***@sbcglobal.net> [TH-F6A] <TH-***@yahoogroups.com <mailto:TH-***@yahoogroups.com> > wrote:
I had heard something of the effect 6 months ago it's a tri-bander and it would be APRS capable. But if one thinks about it, why come up with simply a tri-bander D72?
APRS on 220 doesn't really sound like anything earth shaking. Soooooooooooooo, this guy thinks it's going to have some sort of digital legerdemain attached to it
in one form or another. Now what digital format that would be is anyone's guess? Or multiple formats?
My personal take on digital is unless one lives near a major metropolitan area that offers sites and services, a purpose built rig is a pricey waste of money. I believe for digital
to thrive, it would have to be tacked on to a device that has run-of-the-mill mainstream use. If a digital format becomes available in the future, then the Ham would be ready
to use it. Then again, if the Ham bought the "wrong" rig, would be another waste of money.
A tour de force would be a portable rig that could deal with multiple digital formats but lord knows how that would be with copyrights and patents.
If that were pulled off, it just might be worth the extra $$$$ premium one would have to pay.
The F6A has been out there a very long time relatively speaking, I don't think they'd be going for a replacement of the D72A so soon and a really pricey tri-bander that would be a
cut above a D72 doesn't seem to fit the mold unless they planned on continued production of the F6A.
$$$$$$ F6A< D72A <Tribander "Mystery Ship" ?????
Kurt KC9LDH
From: "Joe Wolfe ***@gmail.com <mailto:***@gmail.com> [TH-F6A]" <TH-***@yahoogroups.com <mailto:TH-***@yahoogroups.com> >
To: TH-***@yahoogroups.com <mailto:TH-***@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 4, 2016 12:35 PM
Subject: RE: [TH-F6A] f6 being discontinued, y/n?
All speculation at this point. Leo wasnât about to divulge anything more than to tell me about it being a tri-bander. I hope Kenwood isnât jumping into D-Star. It appears to be dying everywhere it used to be touted as the coming thing. (Hearsay, of course, as I donât have nor use [obviously] D-Star) :)
I just hope the new handheld will still be small, like the TH-F6A..in my mind, a real plus as all of my family does a lot of mountain hiking and trail hiking. The 220 portion of the HT is how we communicate. It is so small and light, we just clip it to our packs and the speaker mic clips to the pack harness in front. (And yes, all my family except me, have their tech tickets.)
Joe â W7RKN
From: TH-***@yahoogroups.com <mailto:TH-***@yahoogroups.com> [mailto:TH-***@yahoogroups.com]
Subject: Re: [TH-F6A] f6 being discontinued, y/n?
Or it may be that the highly rumored D-STAR capable tri-bander will show up at Dayton, with a sticker nearly doubling that of the TH-F6, and the TH-F6 will remain available until sales drop appreciably.